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The History of Desteni Session 1

An Interview Done by Darryl with Bernard about the History of Desteni

Date : 16/12/2008

(Shuffling around)

Darryl: Okay, we're starting. Bernard, if you can tell us about your, a little of your background that led you to… I suppose you were (holding to something) like a light worker type of philosophy, and up to the point where you confronted a demon. ‚Cause you didn‘t believe in them. So if you could just give us a little…

Bernard: Okay. I grew up as a… in a Christian home and I was a reborn Christian, a part of the local prayer group. So uh, participating in it pretty much fully – meaning that I participate in everything and I was absolutely convinced of being saved by Jesus. That pretty much continued into after school, into my first few years at varsity, university, studying there – studying law. Then the first time my curiosity was tweaked was I met a man that looked at me and started telling me things about me that nobody knew and I was obviously very curious, because it’s like… impossible things… even what age did I have what illness, events that took place with me in my past… 10 years and longer ago. So I asked some questions and, I didn’t realize at that stage what was really going on and he gave me a strange answer, he said to me he can read it in my eyes, so obviously I started doing some research and the closest I could get was iridology, so I did some iridology courses, read the books of Jensen.

D: Now Jensen, um…

He wrote, basically the books of iridology and what was fascinating: in the eyes was a map of the physical body, you could see if there was any form of disease brewing, or a disease already manifested. So I was, from there it went on to a lot of reading about homeopathy, very intrigued by the principles of homeopathy, which basically deals with the premise that like cures like and that the primary medicines they’re using, the way they are formulating it in homeopathy is working on the spirit of the substance in a way, it’s like an imprint more than a vibration, because even at an undetectable level, which means at a level where there act no vibrations measurable, the effect is still measurable. So, obviously one must go and study yourself, these things, you can read the books from Hahnemann, or have a look especially from Europe, homeopathy spread around the world so, and it’s basically utilizing what is here to assist with correcting dysfunctions.

From there I was exposed, one evening, to a strange event. I was watching TV, at that stage the very same man that I met has become my father-in-law. So I’m watching TV and the next moment, he said in a strange voice: ‘Put off the TV.’ So, I put off the TV and there was another voice speaking through the body, and that was the first time I was exposed, unexpectedly, to a deep trance medium. Then I only started finding out that he’s been able to do that since childhood and that he’s done extensive research at University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg with people like Professor Haarhoff and Arthur Blacksley in studies of particularly materialization, healing and related matters, and that they’ve actually been in sessions where materializations actually happened, which was observed by various of these scientists from the university.

He was also utilizing his particular gifts during the Second World War, in the service of the army. So he started, kind of exposing me to things that I have never been exposed to. From my perspective, I was being quite convinced of that, that if I understood the bible correctly, that if God is everything then, there is nothing but God, then evil as such or the devil as such can not exist by the very definition of ‘Almightiness’. So that caused obviously quite a few shock waves in the family when I started expressing that from my perspective the devil cannot exist, according to the scriptures and that the only evil was in the mind of man. I was then exposed to various of the pastors from churches that tried to convince me that the devil did exist and they used the bible for that and I was quite, found that quite fascinating because, using the bible to convince me about the devil – I’m really not interested. To me it simply didn’t exist. Man in essence, from my perspective, was inherently good, but simply through exposure through various pressures: environment, social, cultural and so on – man became something that was weak, in a way.

D: So you didn't… the ‚original sin aspect – you didn‘t think it was valid?

It could not be valid from my perspective, because we’re the image and likeness of God and God couldn’t make mistakes, so I considered that, but from my perspective, if I would utilize choice as my reason for sin, then I am simply choosing not to be the image and likeness of God, which is the, I mean, a fallacy in itself because I am making a deliberate choice of something that I know to be a denial of my true nature, according to the scriptures, to be the image and likeness of God.

So I pushed that point of the image and likeness of God and I studied more and more, I did a lot of reading, I went to various circle development groups, meditation groups, I started investigating psychics to find out if there is anything valuable or valid about it, I had my father-in-law as a deep-trance medium – he could do bi-location, he could indicate events that would happen later on by reading, by simply sitting here and bringing the event forward to himself, as if time would be folded and then say what will happen, and to such a degree that 50% of the time it did happen, 50% of the times it didn’t so that confused me a little bit because: why didn’t it?

What was fascinating about the deep-trance medium was that there was a Door Keeper – the Door Keeper was always the one that would speak first, and that would allow the others through – so it was very clear that there was some form of discipline, and in some instances, beings from the afterlife would come through and speak, specifically trying to give messages through to their family that they’re not dead, but they were then quickly removed from the medium, and then the Door Keeper would say: sorry, they were not supposed to speak, they’re supposed to stand in line and wait their chance. But they never got a chance to speak.

At that stage I was already reading a lot of the channellings from angels, arch-angels, the Michael Teachings… I studied many of the various teachings of Ramallah, Seth, all kinds of… and I found a lot of things in there that made sense, read The Pleiadian Agenda and all the mean time, looking at meditation and understanding: what is the point of us being here, because seemingly, I found a fascinating thing is that psychics and mediums can normally never help themselves, so they can help other people, but their lives are normally in a mess. And you can see it, especially when you start to get closer to them, that during the times when they are ‘spreading the word/the message’ they are one person, the moment that is no longer what they are doing, they would become immediately just a normal person with normal shit… gossiping and doing all the stuff that would be seen as ‘normal human social behavior’ which was a contradiction to the message they were giving, which was, I found that very curios because: it is as if they were living 2 lives. To me that didn’t makes sense, because you either live something, or you don’t, but what was very clear for me, at that stage, was that obviously I interpreted it that God is testing us in multiple ways, and that in essence it is about our intent and our actions.

I had a fortunate experience after studying is that I became a policeman. Four and a half years, I was in the police force, trained in crowd control, I was a fraud detective, and I saw something there that was quite disheartening, I studied law, and I realized in my time at the police that there was no law… that there was no protection to the average man in any way, whatsoever, and that there are people that are deliberately, virtually evil.

D: Did that realization just creep up on you or was it a gradual process?

It was, gradually as I was working with people and I had always a notion of discuss things even with the criminal to understand their behavior, their reason why, and mostly. They were either addicted to drugs, or they are greedy – they want a lot of money, or they’re in financial trouble. Violence mostly came from alcohol, which was the experience while I was in the police, in terms of the cases we were dealing with… there was also groups that would work together that has deliberately taken on society, as a form of a gang to generate income and to specifically target the gullibility of the average human being. And they would get away with it, because the average human being is truly gullible and have no notion that they could be deliberately deceived in their face, and therefore they deliberately deceive in the face.

But during that time in the police, I met a lady which was a psychometrist, we used psychometry and I tested psychometry extensively and found a few interesting points where, for instance: that if one use a photograph to do a psychometric reading, the more photographs of the same person you put together, the stronger the signal would be, the more information they’re able to get out… and we looked at that information and I tested it by actually following it up – some cases it was so, some cases it wasn’t. What seemed to be very clear was that the person reading the information had a definitive impact on what information would come through and how they interpret it. And therefore it is quite a difficult thing and it seems that there was some kind of barrier – you could only get certain information.

Up to that stage, at no time and I had then sessions with my father-in-law, as medium, several times a week. So I was fortunate, I had my own, full-time deep-trance medium. In the beginning, he could not trance without the generation of energy – we used a church organ, the organ sounds of church music to generate energy, then the beings would come through to talk, the people from the afterlife, one after the other and we would record the sessions. For about an hour they can continue and then the energy would drop, and they would say ‘the energy is dropping’. Eventually I… what they said normally is you need quite a number of people in a group together that talks the whole time to generate vibrations so that the beings can actually speak through the body.

Now in a deep-trance medium, for instance, when the being comes through, the person who was in the body, actually… disappears – they do not remember a thing. With one event, I learned something fascinating, because at one stage, my father-in-law wanted to die, he tried to get out of the body and I was instructed how to bring him back into the body and… what they call ‘pulling back’ and it was very clear that he was outside his body and that they had to get him back inside his body. So from that perspective, I understood that it was possible to leave the body. I didn’t really understand at that stage, the impact of that particular event, but I did as they showed me what to do and I pulled him back into the body, his wife was there as well, she was with, and the 2 of us together pulled him back in the body and he was very angry because he wanted to die. He wanted to leave the body and he said to me: you can not trust anyone in heaven. He says: you can trust no-one. To me that was, like, strange and I did not believe him – I thought he was simply just angry because he had to do things in the war that he was, he felt heaven should never have put in front of his door… and he blamed heaven for those choices he had to make. So from my perspective he was simply angry and that is… his form of revenge, was directed at the spirit world, for what happened in the Second World War. Because in the Second World War, he had to make a choice between 2 friends of different sides of the war, and he had to kill one of them to protect his men, and he had to slit the throat of the being because it was in the ‘danger zone’, behind the lines, so he was absolutely disgusted with having to do that.

So, in the exposure obviously now with discussing me with many beings, some hundred that’s been on earth hundreds of years ago, and then they would discuss their existence. One being that came through, a lot was Kaiser Van Hellem Van Hellenzollerin from Byron… he came through. We had many discussions – discussions with various beings. None of the discussions though, ever would be awfully spiritual, although some would come through and pray, for instance: Paul Kruger – he used to be the president of the Union of the Transvaal a long time ago – would come and pray for his people, and the would talk about God as the White Light in whose face you cannot stand, you can not face it, the light is too bright. So I was intrigued by that because God was depicted as The Light.

D: Had you ever heard of God as a White Light?

Not… never particularly, although, yes there is mentionings of that in the bible – God as Light. I studied the bible quite extensively. So, by the time I finished in the police, I’ve had 4 and a half years of regular channellings, on average about an hour and a half at a time… I’ve seen various phenomena, for instance where with a single movement, a cat would become without any life force, the cat would turn like into a fur that you can place over my arm, that’ll fold over my arm. There was a particular fear about cats, so they wanted cats to not be close to the deep-trance medium, they said that it interfered with the ectoplasm. There was also a point of light, the channel couldn’t bear bright light at all, so it had to be done in semi-darkness – light would cause extensive pain to the body. Also, meat was not allowed to be eaten, if a being eat meat they will throw up… and obviously my father-in-law deliberately tried to eat meat to try and stop the gift, or the skill, or the ability to channel… but he was a healer, so….

D: Did he have a specific group that he was, that sort of constellated around him?

Nothing – he did not want anything to do with it. After his studies he did not form groups, nobody came him, he did no readings for anyone, he was basically just a healer that do healing using homeopathy. And when I came on the scene, it seemed to have activated all of those things again – if I have a headache, for instance, I would go him and then he put his hands on me to take the headache away – he could do shit like that. He would go into trance, where he demonstrated, for instance, cataleptic paralysis where the body turns into a statue, so you’re standing there like a statue, you can’t move it, which is fascinating… moving things, like closing doors, opening doors using ectoplasm – you basically use ectoplasm for that. Ectoplasm, what was explained to me was that: ectoplasm was not in the same quantity in all bodies – some people carry more ectoplasm and they could, they become deep-trance mediums. He was born with the ability, it was not something that he was trained in. He predicted the abdication of the king of England many, many years ago, and that happened as a child and therefore, because that happened – that prediction – they called him The Prophet, because he made predictions that, for instance, like that that happens.

So, I was in a way disheartened and in a way not, I was very interested in finding a solution to the world – how, to me what was quite fascinating was that: Heaven on Earth couldn’t just happen, it was something we had to practically participate in for it to become real – that was what has become clear to me as I was studying the scriptures. And obviously in discussion with the afterlife, these things were kind of sidestepped, they never talked about it and they never would answer questions clearly that’s related to anything about the spirit world. It was as if that was a topic that was not allowed to be discussed. So from there I was involved in investigating various things involving fraud at the level of money and I was warned by the spirit world that: that is something not to investigate, because you would be killed if you do. So, when all of these things started going haywire, I decided to stop and leave, and I moved to Durban.

D: Where were you previously?

I was in Johannesburg.

D: Johannesburg…

I was at the biggest police station in the country, I was stationed there.

So I then was in Durban and primarily, I had to make a living, I started going into education – to me education was the key to assist people. For 7 years I started, I worked in mathematics, because as I could see, if one has got a reasonable mathematical ability, your ability to work out a living answer is something that a contextual answer within your living expression… would be enhanced. But I found that it was limited – people seems to forget something, as if it never becomes real. You study at school and then after school every thing you’ve learned at school just disappears again. the only things that remained was for instance, your tables, your basic bonds and so on – things that you have learned ‘parrot fashion’, off by heart – those things remained. Things that you studied as knowledge that you didn’t take to the ‘parrot fashion’ form you tend to forget. So that was a curious observation because it would indicate that: if you have a better memory ability, you seem to have been able to do better in the world.

In investigating that, I became aware that our reading ability was really atrocious, so I was fortunate that I was identified with such a problem, I was 18 years old, I did courses to enhance my reading ability and that changed my life, because it placed me in a position to observe information independently, meaning: without preconceived ideas, you first read the information, look at it without your belief system, without emotional influence, without your preconceived definitions because that influence the outcome of the information – and then you look at it – which allowed me to be more critical about what I’m reading, in terms of whether it is practically real, practically sustainable – practical support. Slowly but surely that ability started to influence what I have accepted as real. It was very clear that the message from the bible was a peculiar message, strange message that was full of contradictions and so I decided, due to my exposure with the medium that obviously, there is definitely an afterlife – there I had no doubt about anymore, because I had many conversations and many points that were shown that very clearly indicated that an afterlife existed.

So in my investigation with psychics, I went to as many as possible, wherever I could find, and I went there and simply just listened to compare the various readings between psychics. I never had, from all the – and I have been to many psychic sessions, besides my father-in-law, probably an extra hundred sessions that I did over years – there never was 2 messages the same in any way, whatsoever… or could anyone pick up that I had been to other psychics. And I had strange experiences where things would be predicted that would happen and then it would happen, but I had an interesting notion that I looked at it: that I am not obliged to follow that, so therefore I would sometimes deliberately stop and not follow it, which made the psychics very angry because they said: this is a message from God, from the spirit world and I must adhere to it. I simply said I am not willing to do that… I mean, I have free choice as far as I was concerned at that stage and suddenly, from their perspective I didn’t (have free choice). So I found the whole ‘free choice’ thing early on challenged, even by the beings from the spirit world. So, initially there was no big motions, I did my thing, I studied the Kryon channellings, I studied Conversations with God extensively, the Pleiadians, the Michael Teachings, the Book of Miracles – what is that?

D: Course of Miracles?

Course of Miracles – many books, I had my own library – extensive… Joel Goldsmith – The Infinite Way, The St Germain writings… all of those and I would… Melchizedek…

D: Drumvalo?

Yeah, I would go into it intensely, I would intensely study it. I would for instance: read the book, I will have it on tape, I will listen to it over and over and over again and I will test it out, and I will live it to see how effective it is and if there is any value as a living support for myself in this world which I can demonstrate through example to others. To me, the principle was: find a way to be an example, at that stage. In that, I kept on developing software for reading abilities, there was many setbacks, but I stuck to the point of what it is I really wanted to do. To me it was never really about the money – it was: finding a way to support people effectively, even if they don’t understand that such a point is available – to find a way, to me was: the more children I could help to read effectively, to have an effective vocabulary, the more their chances to actually develop their own world view, independently of the influences that exist that is limiting our reality, so, I applied that with my own children and that was quite effective. They developed a strong independence, effective critical assessment of points and a very assertive expression – therefore they were not easily influenced.

To me, obviously the point that existed, above all points, was love. Love was the ‘ultimate point’. In all of that I started also the work of Alice Bailey, I did the esoteric healing courses. I had some interesting experiences that started to change my perspective while studying Alice Bailey and I started to consider that there is a definite technology involved within the spirit world and Alice Bailey’s work very clearly indicate the technology, and when I applied it I had experiences that indicate that it actually had an impact on the reality, as we perceive it.

In that, I ended up, eventually in a dire straight, financially and in divorce. After the divorce, I made a decision, discussed it with the ex-wife and the decision was very specific: that we must forgive each other, we must get together, sit down and forgive each other – because forgiveness, to me, was a very valuable, powerful message. Forgive each other for everything that we’ve ever done to each other so that we can have a proper relationship to support the children. Which we did – we sat down one evening and we face to face, and would, you know, openly discuss everything we’ve done and did forgiveness. That continued for about 8 hours, it was very… explosive, extremely emotional. In that, I experienced an interesting thing, I experienced: in applying forgiveness, I am feeling… somehow lighter, it’s like a burden that’s lifted. I decided to go full out, like I’ve always done with this stuff, I go full out and test it out, no matter what. I decided to do it full out, and I did do it full out, and by the end of the first 8 hour session I was able to perceive things that I’ve never thought possible. I could perceive, virtually another reality right here, where we are and I could experience what was happening in all the people and the more we did forgiveness together, those that would participate in the same group of forgiveness would tend to be able to pick up each other’s thoughts and experiences directly and I found it fascinating that it was showing in the physical body. So I started exploring that and investigating that.

I did a lot of reading on that, in terms of Louise Hay, Brandon Bays – all kinds of beings that dealt with forgiveness, studying forgiveness, testing it. At that stage I was already doing Kinesiology – Kinesiology from the perspective of finding within me: what is me really? What is self honesty? Why do I have experiences where I have one intent, but I will do something differently to what I intend to do? So that didn’t make sense that: in the last moment, no matter how good my intent, I will end up doing something else. It’s as if you are compelled to protect yourself against some unseen possible point of somebody hurting or harming you – so therefore, you might have the greatest intent, you will always act in self protection in the end. And in the points, fascinatingly enough, where you did push through in your intent, those that noticed that you are doing that will deliberately abuse you.

So, you had this catch-22 where you simplistically could not get past a point of the strangest of abuses that existed. You can profess to be a good person, but when it comes to the self interest point, to the point of self protection, you will always regard yourself first and disregard everything else and you’ll justify it. So justification became a very clear point that I realized was causing me quite a lot of uncomfortableness within, I mean, I can justify something, but to in the end live with it – I found that very difficult because it’s as if I became weaker if I would allow any point of me acting in opposition to my intent and actually acting in self interest. So I started forcing myself to deliberately push through the points, to apply my forgiveness to make sure I don’t justify and go through it, no matter what happens, even to the point of my own destruction. And, I kept on pushing.

Within that, I ended up destroying myself. I ended up with nothing. And that’s where I started again, and that point where I started again, I looked again at reading and I developed programs and then I met a man, Rob, that was in to video recordings and he was curios about what we were doing and I said to him: look, we’re doing a reading project, in terms of finding ways to present ways to assist children to be effective readers and have a impact on that, with that on the world. Although, obviously our ideas of what we did were pretty good, the practical application of that was a different story. They then wanted to do a recording about, talking about the reading project and we were doing ‘real time TV’ and they said they will pop in one evening and come and do a shoot. And one evening at about 9 o ‘clock they were there with lights and cameras and at the door and in and it was cameras running, I mean this was a real time story. We were in the lounge and we were talking and I was showing them what it was all about and we ended up talking a little bit about forgiveness and how forgiveness operate and while talking about forgiveness, the next moment one of the cameramen walked onto set and came and sat in front of me and started challenging me about forgiveness and the bible specifically and how I could claim that forgiveness is so valuable?

I suggested to him a simple thing, I said to him, “Just say with me, let’s do forgiveness together: I forgive myself that I have allowed myself not to love myself unconditionally. It’s a simple thing.” And he looked at me and I could see it is at the tip of his tongue, but he just couldn’t speak, so I kept on repeating it and I took his hand. As I took his hand, his whole body contracted, like his hand turned into claws, his eyes popped over to white and he was like, unable to speak at all and his face was contracted and it was very clear that he had some kind of an event which I did not immediately recognize as anything. To me it would be a seizure – it could anything. I just kept on holding him and doing forgiveness. It was only towards the end that I realized that there is something inside him that is causing this.

Suddenly that something left, and actually left the house and at that moment he was back, aware, fully, immediately as the thing left and he ran out of the house and he came back and he says: all that he remembered is that a blackness came over him and that only when that blackness was out of him was he back, aware. So, in the meantime obviously the cameras were running. To me that was a little bit disheartening because I have now experienced a form of a possession, but that left the person and actually went hunting, or looking for another host. So in effect I have caused more harm than good from my perspective, because the… whatever it was at that stage… was still loose.

I started studying and I looked at Jesus, for instance, that drove out the evil spirits into the pigs and the pigs then into the water, I mean, even at that principle it meant those spirits still existed and looked for new hosts so, that to me wasn’t valid. That made me question a lot about the Jesus message because just in that one event, was an unacceptable point. So I vowed to never again help a person that’s possessed until I understand how this can be done without the spirit or the possession moving and looking for another host.

D: So did you believe in the existence of (demons)? According to the Jesus story, there's the sayings about demons when they would leave and come back with more if they found a nicely kept home.

I didn’t have any belief about anything around demons. I’ve now had an experience of it, I have heard of it happening, but to me, strangely enough, I had no fear of it whatsoever. To me it was simply something I have to understand. I did at that stage not understand anything about demons, I didn’t realize… all I knew was that: to me it was a test God placed, the ultimate test would be the ultimate test of forgiveness from my perspective at that stage would be: God had placed amongst us evil spirits that, in essence, is no different to us because it comes from the same source that we must face and assist them with forgiveness. So, I looked at it from that perspective that forgiveness as a gift from God, from as I understood it then, was the key to assist even an evil spirit and that that would be the kind of challenge that God would place in front of us, before we could actually enter his kingdom. So I looked at those kind of stuff.

So I looked at it and studied and tried to find out more about it. First of all, very clearly, I practiced forgiveness, to make sure that there is no fear. I used Kinesiology to start to program myself to be able to assist demons, specifically. And I started with assisting them by setting up myself. Because to me I came to the conclusion that if I cannot face a demon in me or allow me to be possessed, and I cannot face that demon in forgiveness, then obviously, I'm not ready. The only way to find out if I am ready is to assist a demon, was actually take them into me.

So I set myself up to take out demons automatically, no matter where I go. Simply by being in the presence of beings, even in the shopping centers, I'd take the demons into me automatically. That had to have some repercussions that I didn't expect.

One morning we woke up and we had painting outside, on the walls of our house. “I'm going to kill you and your son.” Crosses and all kinds of satanic symbols, all on the doors, and around the house. I got Cerise, and said, “Come! What's going on here?”

‚We‘ve got demons everywhere,” Cerise said. So somehow, I pissed off the demons because I've been taking them into me. I show them forgiveness.

At that stage I already knew about quantum forgiveness in existence, where I can show them assistance of what I've done with forgiveness and how I have worked with it and why I trust it in the system as well. All of that when I take them into me

So, at that stage, I have never faced a group of demons. There was over three hundred of them there. I've never faced a group of demons like that.

So I didn't know exactly what to do. I said to Cerise, “Look, it's very simple. We need to get all these demons into me. And you've got to make sure we get them all.” And she was quite okay with that. “Okay, lets to that.” And that's what we did.

We did the whole lot and the last five were the most difficult. They were the strongest demons. But we got them all into me, and as we got them into me, I'd just stand and show them what forgiveness is all about. And they all transformed, and they went somewhere. I don't know exactly where, but I know they were no longer demons.

At this stage I was very clear that forgiveness does actually transforms the demon specifically. Therefore I made it my objective to help as many as possible.

Started having meetings at home where we were specifically bring demons and specifically assist them. And I was quite comfortable to allow people to become possessed. It seemed to happen very easily when I gave permission for it from the perspective that I am there and I will simplistically show them the experience so that they can understand the demon's experience and apply forgiveness to assist the demon and afterwards when the demon has done forgiveness, we discuss their life and what caused them to become a demon – which was fascinating beyond imagination because of all the ways the beings become demons was normally because of traumatic events during their lives. Abuse. All kinds of things, or traumatic death events caused them to become demons. And we would afterwards discuss it.

D: So the demon would talk as the person?

No. First the demon would be in the body and speak. Once the demon has done forgiveness – we'd do forgiveness together – the demon will wake up and we would discuss their life. They are no longer a demon. They would change right in front of us. I mean, many. We did this many times. In different bodies testing it. We would have three or four people possessed at the same time, take them through the forgivenesses, assist them, they would resist many times. They would squeal and scream and do all kinds of strange, demon-like stuff. They are possessing the person, I mean. Their eyes pop over, it's a normal possession. If you've looked at some possessions on TV and so, it's the kind of stuff that happens.

I was extremely assertive and stable at that time. I've practiced extensively to make sure there is no fear. And to make sure, specifically on one point: the one point I realized was that there must be no point within me that I have not forgiven. If the demon could find such a point, they would attach to it. Because that's all they actually did. They possessed you at the point where you have not forgiven.

We tested this by allowing each one to assist with also transforming demons, by giving them an opportunity to speak to the demon. If I am not there, someone else who was there would speak to the demon. (What usually happened was) But the demon would simply look at them and point out their points where they have not applied forgiveness.

“How do you speak to me about forgiveness when you have not forgiven?” That's what the demon said. So the demon knew. They could see clearly and stump the person because they didn't know what to say, because the demon was talking the truth.

And to th Nth degree, I had to step in and assist the demon because normally, people would have been unable to actually assist demons because they have points within themselves that they haven't forgiven.

Because of that, they are unable to assist. But they were quite comfortable (working with demons).

A number of people were then given an opportunity to participate within the context of assisting demons. Within that, obviously we learned a lot about demon possession. As I've said, demons per se, were the result of specifically some emotional event during the physical lifetime that became obsessive.

We also learned that demons transferred (integrating into beings) in curious ways. Alcohol, drugs or sex. Or physical, traumatic events.

We also learned that were “body-hoppers,” demons who would travel through time from one body to the next with a singular mission (the demons all have singular missions)… it's as if they were trapped in time

within their obsession, and the obsession continuously played out. So, if it was particularly revenge and anger, they would play out revenge and anger, through hundreds of years, continuously possessing people. And then taking over people in critical moments and commit murder. Many of the people sitting in jails today did not commit the acts they are accused of. They were possessed when it was actually happening.

So we realized that nobody is going to believe all of this. You know, the fear of demons is extensive, and the disregard for the power of forgiveness is even more extensive. I mean, I have yet to meet Christians who have actually applied forgiveness. They speak it, but they don't live it. That's why they would not dare to take on demons was forgiveness.

I would suggest that one could consider very clearly, that you are not actually applying forgiveness if you aren't trusting, even in the face of the deepest darkness. I mean, that is what forgiveness is for.

There is nobody who is beyond forgiveness, even a demon. Or even Satan or the devil. We faced Satan and the devil with forgiveness and they applied forgiveness.

So, from that perspective, my perspective of God being “Almighty,” in a way as forgiveness, did stand the test of time.

D: Did the demons offer a different look into the spirit world?

Not initially. Initially, from my perspective, the demons, once they were clear from my perspective, they returned to God. To me, God existed as the White Light. I've had many gifts given by the White Light, so I tested the real. From my perspective, they were returning. I was living “here.” I had specifically disciplined myself to stick to my physical breath, because that I had found was a space within myself, my within world that I could direct with ease. I can remain self – honest and that is a part where I can where I have a directive impact in whatever I'm doing. So therefore, I remained in my breath.

So, it was only much later after we had been assisting demons for a considerable amount of time already, something like two years before we – and sometimes we've been called out to assist people. Especially women were attacked by certain demons that were sexually driven and would rape them or physically attack them. Would have a physical experience with a demon possession that's sexually based, which normally came from the husband when the husband has been sleeping around.

D: So you were sort of called in as an exorcist.

Yeah, I would just go. But it was easy at this stage. I've been doing it so many times. I would simplistically find the demon and put it into me. And then sort and assist it. I've found that if you are insisting on forgiveness – what I would insist on with the demon is that I am willing to walk for eternity with the demon to show them forgiveness, if they are not willing to consider what I have to show to them.

And I show them that I have done worse than they have done. I am equal in their “badness” and their evil and darkness. I am also equal in the solution; which is forgiveness. And I showed them that I am willing to be their guardian for eternity with forgiveness. That in itself the demons regarded as unusual because nobody has ever been willing to offer their existence for a single being – to walk with them to eternity. And I show them that with certainty because they could test me. Meaning, you are certain about something, and you're standing with it as it for eternity. So I would stand as eternity and show them: “This is me eternally, at your service for one, singular point: your forgiveness. Your letting go of that which contains you. That which has bound you within your expression that which you call demonic. So let that go using forgiveness. So that's what I did. To me that was not unusual. The point was specifically common sense. That was to me, what was implied by all the teachings of Jesus, all the teachings of forgiveness. It was implied: all that forgiveness is, is a tool that breaks the bonds of all limitations, darkness, whatever you want to call it.

So in that time, as we were doing the forgiveness things, the portal opened. Now, obviously I had at that stage had serious questions that I wanted to ask God and Heaven. I was fairly satisfied at that stage with proof that I had that the Reptilians existed.

D: Whaa… The Reptilians?

Yeah, they were real, because I tested that already ion various points.

D: Okay, one second. You sort of made a shift from, you know, “God is Good, No Evil,” to “Evil Exists,” okay. Demons exist, okay. Forgiveness helps demons and now, the Reptilians.

I initially studied David Icke's work, and was not satisfied with his presentation of [reptilians]. There was simply no proof. I mean, he suddenly made a big jump of assumption about Reptilians. And they were all bad. Obviously, me coming from a point of forgiveness, that is like the best food possible you can offer me, because, from my perspective, there is no “all bad.” From my perspective, forgiveness is a tool. So whether the Reptilians are all bad or good, or whether they are aliens or whatever they are, I'm really not interested.I've had an experience with aliens during meditation once; a physical, manifested experience which was confirmed through another person, all in the same time without any form of communication, so it was direct demonstration of an actual alien event.

D: Could you talk about that a little?

We were meditating and was I aware of some form of craft, and in the next moment, I had in my hands a form of light of many colors. So I sent it to one of the people that was sitting around and immediately, the person went into a trance and started doing automatic writing. And the message said: “We are from a planet far away. He knows,” and he pointed at me.

And then continued writing, and it was Yankor, which we have interviewed. I mean, there no way that that could have been constructed, directed, immediate. No communication took place. All that happened was in writing. The point was specific. What I experienced was specifically confirmed by another person which is how I always worked: on confirmation of an independent point that was not influenced in any way whatsoever. So that was my confirmation point and I was quite satisfied. After that I had been in space ships. I have traveled the universe with them, and I have seen the universe from that perspective, which was more fascinating than the aliens, I must say. Of course, the aliens were without form in that particular instance. They had no particular form. They were more like a free-flowing form like water. But they were able to show me on the peculiar technology that they had, the whole universe. And I could travel through it at speed that is un… (whew). And perceive it! Which was more interesting that we could experience the actuality of it. But anyway, to me, that was irrelevant because the problem was on Earth. The problem had nothing to do with aliens or spaceships. So to me that was irrelevant because they could make no difference. Common sensically speaking; if aliens come today, that would not change the human being's behavior. It will not change the fears within the human being. It will not change how the human being lives. It will not change how the human being work. It will not change the family structure, it will not change anything that is currently existing on Earth, because that is what the human being is. So, aliens, it was clear to me, will never actually come to Earth.

I didn't know, obviously at that stage I didn't understand what aliens really were and how it worked interdimensionally. I had no idea of these things. To me, I had these events and I clearly decided that they are not there to influence me in terms of my basic understanding; which is here as breath, applying forgiveness, living as forgiveness. And in that, obviously, purifying my words at that stage, see words multidimensionally in sound. That happened when I was 35 years old. So I could hear within a person's words their total life as it unfolds in sound, because in essence, our existence was sound.

I did not fully comprehend the explanations of these things yet, but I had already proven its existence clearly to myself. And I had tested it out in term of how it manifests within the physical body as pain and how we create our reality. Which is possibly (another) whole total discussion.

Anyway, at this stage we had many different events. We had, for instance, an event where Cerise was going out with a chap with the name, James -his father died in a car crash. They went to the funeral and everything. Three weeks after that, we were busy working with demons. Suddenly, the father was in the portal (At that stage, the portal was already open).

How did I know this was real? Because there was something going on with Cerise and James that I was not aware of, and Keiran (we did interviews with Keiran) immediately said to me, “Wait. You don't know what is going on here. Let me handle it.”

And he handled the situation, which was where Cerise faced her point of forgiveness. Because in the face of her worst nightmares, she had to forgive. And she did. Which was fascinating, that that point she had transcended forgiveness to the ultimate degree.

When Keiran was done with that, he asked a simple question. “What now? Who's going to show me what's going on?” So I showed him. At that stage, I could show the being everything with a single touch. So, a demon I would simplistically touch the oneness connection and they would understand everything immediately. They will change, apply forgiveness, the whole story.

We learned about quantum time in the most fascinating way, because now we're in a quantum reality, and eventually that was taken to sound, where a single word would express the quantum; the multidimensional quantum reality, which is timeless which is all here.

In which immediately, the demon would understand everything and apply forgiveness. Imagine. All in a single breath

Obviously, it took time before we got to that point. Initially, the longest point we had with a demon was 45 minutes. 45 minutes with a single demon, which was Patrick. We've done some interviews with Patrick.

There was another demon with the name Bill. And he came through and said to me, “I know what you are doing. You're using the Law of Resistance. And I will not resist you.”

And I said to him, “That's wonderful, you not resisting me. Which allows me to embrace you. Therefore, I embrace you.” And in that moment, he was fucked.

So basically, what I did I used the Law of Resistance. The principle was simplistic. The demons that would come through would resist you. I would not resist them. I'll just open up. And as they resist, have a look at the fascinating nature of resistance, resistance is a “pushing.” As you push it, if there is no resistance coming back, you go in. Using the Law of Resistance like that allowed me to show the demons what was goin on. And they could not resist me from that perspective, because it was futile.

So that showed another perspective. Because I had a single moment where I had to come up with the “how to deal with this” point with this kind of demon. I mean, this demon telling me that he's not going to resist me. So-

D: It works both ways.

Yes, so it works both ways. Which was fascinating because… it works both ways. Basically, the principle around of what I understood at that stage was that there was a singular law within consciousness. Which is also within the physical, manifested universe. Which is the Law of Balance. Now the Law of Resistance is simply a derivative of that because all things are pushing away from each other: equilibrium. Which is the Law of Balance.

Therefore, everything is always in equilibrium. If you want to change anything, you have to step beyond the equilibrium, either allowing it into you, or pushing it and then allowing it into you. You have to basically, embrace what is here, to change it. You have to step beyond the balance. You have to become virtually the point of change. You have to become the catalyst.

Therefore, if you are not the catalyst, if you do not interfere, there will be no change. That was clearly demonstrated when dealing with the demons from that perspective.

So at this stage, with the opening of the portal, that gave us quite a new perspective on everything because we've been dealing with demons and I was sitting and discussing with people, and the point we are going to need to have direct access to Heaven to investigate what's going on. Why, for instance, do demons exist? Here we have proven that forgiveness changes demons. I would like to know from Heaven why have they not applied forgiveness with the demons. I mean, that's the message from Heaven.

Here we have proven in this world, in the physical, that forgiveness works with demons, and Heaven is not applying forgiveness. I would like to know why.

So I need somebody – I'll show them how – willing to go to Heaven and find out what the fuck is going on.

So Sunette said, yes, she'll do it. So I looked at it, and at that moment she said it, I tested it. I test those things inside me in terms of – and it stood. I was a little bit unsure from that perspective, because I don't know what she will face. Will she be strong enough to stand? The only tools she has is forgiveness. Whatever is going to happen, she's going to have to use forgiveness. Which is strange, isn't it?

I said, “There's only one thing I can do for you. I can protect you. I can protect you with the Grace of God.” What I did was place my arms on her shoulders and placed myself as her protection. Because I understood one thing very clearly: we are the image and likeness of God. That means we are equal and one. Therefore, we are the Directive Principle of Creation.

Therefore if I place me, I am placing everything, here, as the absolute Directive Principle. In that singular moment, she breathed and left her body.

And then she started coming back obviously, with many stories of all the things (she had seen), and she was bringing back beings. She was saying, “Oh, I met this being, and I met this one, oh, this is a demon,” and then she'll just… a lot of things were happening. Oh, we were very busy.

I had a chat with… I had studied Osho extensively. I wanted to talk to Osho because I always had a level of respect for him, for what he was doing and what he was writing. So I had wanted to hear from him. If he could give us … shit – some light on the subject of what the fuck was going on.

So, speaking to Osho… and then we had the Jesus Event. The Jesus Event was fascinating because I wasn't quite sure with all the books written in this world, that Jesus existed or not. My children were never in church. They were never exposed to the Bible. They were never exposed to Jesus, nothing.

So Leslie-John came into the room and said to me – and remember, Leslie-John has never been in church. He's not been baptized, he's never read the Bible, he knows nothing of these things. That's never been a part of his existence. Because, before he was born I had already given up. I had already followed a path, from my perspective was forgiveness, which was the image and likeness of God, that was not religion. Therefore, to me bible, in essence was a religion. The living reality is not a religion.

We spoke to Osho. And then Leslie-John walked in and said, “Look, Jesus is going to come just now through the portal. When he comes, call me.”

So I says,“Okay… what are you talking about?” Okay yes, that's fascinating, Jesus is going to come.

The next moment, Jesus comes through the portal. And we call Leslie-John. He walks in, and he and Jesus are like big buddies. Then we find out that he and Jesus has been chatting to Leslie-John for some time and has been acting as his guide. Obviously, I didn't know that until it's revealed.

So we discussed various things and he explained what happened, and so on. And he explained that he was locked up in the dimensions.

Strange enough, he was locked in the dimensions and had no access. But even at that stage, I had not yet questioned the White Light. I still accepted at a deeper level that God,as the White Light, existed.

Even at that stage, I'd been speaking to Reptilians. To me, they were just part of this whole thing, and God had a Greater Purpose, and all I had to do was to understand it.

So here we were chatting away with Jesus. Then Jesus and Keiran, they went and they cleared up the demon dimension. So in that moment, the last demon we met was Hitler. That was the very last demon we did. After that, all the demons were cleared up.

So now they cleared the demon dimension; Jesus, Keiran, and Hitler/ Mykey. They cleared the demon dimension. They brought all the demons together and they all did forgiveness, and they all transcended. And that was it. So now there were no more demons. I mean, in one, singular moment. After all the years we dealt with it, there were no more demons.

D: Oh, what year was this?

You're asking me?

D: 2003? 2004?

I'm not quite sure. We will have to look that up.

D: Alright.

So I was sitting there with Chief (Bernard's Red Indian Guide) having coffee. And he asked me a question. And he said to me, “After all this, would you now trust God?”And I said to him, “Chief. If I have to be honest with myself and say ‚no.‘”

And so I said to Sunette, “Go ask the White Light what's going on here. Ask questions. I don't know which questions, just ask questions.”

And then, in a moment, I said, “No. I must ask this myself.” So I did. And I did it from a different perspective. I simply became it. And in that one moment, the White Light, and everything (connected to it) was no more.

Obviously, I have never spoken to the angels because I was so pissed off with them for allowing the demons to exist and not applying forgiveness – and that already had invalidated their existence. Any master, any great guru ever, just on that singular point, invalidated their total message of love. Because the greatest tool they had was forgiveness, they didn't use.

While we have proven on Earth using forgiveness – that that transcends all things.D: When did you get to that point? Was that before when the demon were taken out?

What?

D: That the angels had invalidated their existence.

No. I did not question that directly. I simply disregarded that because from my perspective, I was standing within the principle of forgiveness as the teaching that is here to support all of life.

D: Angels are just an extension of God. Did you like –

I wanted to hear from God Himself, the White Light. I mean, that's what I wanted to hear. And in that moment when that happened, there were no more angels. I obviously did not realize everything that was going on, what's been happening, what happened in 1998… I didn't realize all the things that were going on. That all came out as we investigated. As we investigated, we started to realize that man, there's a lot more than meets the eye.

And for a year and a half, we just investigated… before we said anything. But I mean, at that stage, we have for several years already proven one simple fact: that forgiveness transcends all things. That that is the key of all keys.

If forgiveness can work for a demon, it can work for any human being, equal and one. To me, the message of the demons has always been one message: forgiveness. We realized obviously, in Heaven it was simplistic, in the demon dimension, it was simplistic to help millions of demons, because there is quantum time. On Earth, it was a different story. You can't do that.

Here we are in time. Here, each one will have to do it for themselves. Here, each one will have to apply forgiveness for themselves. The bottom line was “how to bring this message across” in an understandable way that makes sense and that will support people to realize that after all, we are responsible for ourselves.