Interview Done by Darryl with Jack through the Portal
This is a continuation of Part 3, which can be found here.

Where the previous part ended off:

Jack: Yeah, that ‘Intenseness’ would ‘influence’ the Vibration of the Dimensions. So, ‘nothing may ‘disturb’ the Vibrations of the Dimensions’. So that’s why Anu said, “Fine,” and basically, the Demons also brought kind of a ‘different’, ‘more exciting scenario’ into Earth, you know. Keeping Beings preoccupied with the whole religion thing, and have fun with the Exorcism.

Darryl: We’re going to come to the exorcism in a second, the day of... when Andrea and her boyfriend drove down to Durban (City in South Africa)...

Jack: (Chuckles)

Darryl: But just before that, what precipitated that exorcism was the incident where the boyfriend moved out, and Andrea was content to being Possessed and sitting in bed all day.

Jack: Yeah, at that stage, I was working with her ‘Emotional and Feeling Bodies’. The Mind existed of Emotional, Feeling, ‘Energetically Charged Bodies’. Literally, ‘Bodies’ that existed within the Physical in like, these ‘pockets’. And I wanted to keep her into, and as ‘one stable point’, okay? Now, what I couldn’t do is – understand, I still had to keep her ‘in the Mind’, you know, ‘of the Mind’. Because if I took her out of the Mind ‘completely’, what would happen is her Physical wouldn’t be able to handle or be able to function.

Because it was the age of four when I got to her, her Mind was already ‘One and Equal’, ‘merged’ into the Physical, and she was already ‘in the Mind’. But I had to ‘contain her’ within the Mind, to not create that ‘Relationship Connection’ to the Unconscious; to the World System in its entirety. I just had to keep her stable in one point; contained.

So, what I did at that stage is ‘lock her out’ of going into these Emotional and Feeling and Energetic Pockets. That…, why? Because these Emotional and Feeling Energy Bodies, these ‘Energy Pockets’, would be stuff that would ‘re-charge’ the Mind, constantly and continuously, the Conscious, Subconscious and Unconscious – that would kind of ‘rejuvenate’ her ‘Allocation Point’ within the World System, within a System, in her ‘Pre-Programmed Life Designed Path’, and to keep her out of it ‘completely’, to get her to that ‘one point’ (of meeting Bernard). Because it wasn’t a ‘Pre-Programmed Path’ I was leading her through.

I had to kind of... still in the Mind, ‘direct her in the world’, without her leading her Pre-Programmed Life Design.

Darryl: Wow. Did that mess up all the other points that were sort of dependent on her going into the Matrix?

Jack: Oh, many points. Many. Many. Primarily ‘Relationships’, ‘Friendships’ formed, stuff like that. So I had to change the Friendships and Relationships point. Because Friendships are the point that kind of work you into specific ‘networks’. And from that ‘network’, you walk your life with these certain types of people, okay? That ‘hones’ you in the World System, in the Unconscious Unified Field, and you live your Pre-Programmed Life according to those Beings. And then your Relationships that’s formed – meaning ‘sexual’, Physical Relationships that’s formed, is that which keeps you on track: ‘One Track Road’, ‘Pre-Programmed Life’.

So, I had to not have her participate in Emotional and Feeling Energy Pockets of the Mind so that it doesn’t ‘recharge’ the Mind the whole time. At the same time, I couldn’t ‘completely’ have her be ‘separated’ from the Mind. Otherwise, the body wouldn’t function.

Darryl: Gotcha, yeah.

Jack: Because it was that whole Relationship with the Body which cannot function with the Mind, the Mind cannot function without the Body. That’s why I ‘Possessed’ her. I kept her in ‘One Experience’. But it wasn’t an Emotional or Feeling ‘charge’. I ‘became’ that Expression. I ‘became’ that Experience. It wasn’t a ‘Mind Energetic Charge of Emotional Feeling’. I ‘became’ Anger. But then, it’s not ‘Anger’ experienced as a ‘reaction’. It’s an ‘Expression of Anger’. I just kept her in that ‘mode’, let’s call it that. To keep her still in the Mind, not accessing Emotional Feeling Energy and still keep her ‘contained’.

Darryl: Okay, so that lasted for a couple of months?

Jack: Yeah.

Darryl: So what happened with the knife incident where she was going to cut herself with the knife on her arm? That’s what she remembers.

Jack: That point was for her to face her point of “fear of death.” Why? Because her father committed suicide. What would have been inevitable within her Life Design, her Pre-Programmed Life Design, was herself ‘committing suicide’. Inevitably, eventually... in her forties. Fifties. Around there. That point I saw. So, to completely diffuse that point entirely, I took her to that point. Right here, right now, immediately, I said, “Go for it.”

And in that moment, she had to make a choice. “Do I live or do I die? What do I do?” And she chose to live, and not to kill herself.

And so, she faced that point, the whole point ‘diffused’ and no more there anymore, at all.

I mean, there was a ‘risk’. I knew that she would either commit suicide, or not. Because that point did exist in her. It was manifested. It would have eventually played out in her life. So I just said, “Fucking face this point, now. Let’s get it done, over with, ‘diffused’.” I made in that moment a decision: if she does take that life and kill herself, would I again reincarnate with her into her life and do this over again; this point? And I said to myself, “Yes.” And because I made that decision, I could take her to that point, I suppose, together – to that point. Make sense?

Darryl: Yeah. That’s fascinating. The commitment there. So, the exorcism... we’ll come to the exorcism now. So, you’re probably having fun with this...

Jack: (Chuckles)

Darryl: What does the –

Jack:  -The exorcism –

Daryl: - exorcism show? I mean, I’ve gone over that with Andrea and it’s a brilliant display.

Jack: The ‘exorcism point’ was... I realized that I couldn’t exist within her as a Demon for long. Because it would eventually... she wouldn’t be able to ‘function’ in this world practically if I remained inside her as a Demon. Or if I remained as a ‘Demon-Manifested Expression’ within her Process – it was a temporary solution from the Ouija board experience.

Darryl: You were just thinking on your feet, sort of. I mean, you were just –

Jack: Yeah, yeah. It was all just kind of... coming together. I had to find another way. Because I couldn’t ‘Possess her’ the whole time sitting in her room doing nothing. She had to earn money. She had to function practically in this world. Because if I... if this goes on too long, what could happen is that she could go ‘mad’. She could go ‘insane’. And that point exists. And I did everything as much as possible to not have that occur, but I realized that this experience could actually ‘integrate’ into her, the Physical, if it continues too long. So, I had to change. Do a ‘different scenario’.

So, at that point, I was still indecisive in what to do. I didn’t know what to do - because, again, I didn’t want to form a Relationship, meaning an Attachment point. Letting her know, alright, I’m actually assisting you in your Process. I’m not a Demon harming you, I’m actually ‘aware’ that I’m assisting you – type thing.

So that’s where I started coming out of being a Demon. That point of ‘Possession’ where I realized that... it was an ‘Awareness Moment’ where I saw back, okay, I’ve been a Demon, this is why I became a Demon, I cannot be a Demon anymore, because it’s going to integrate into the Physical. So, I came out of that point. So that point of trust stood.

Darryl: Okay.

Jack: And I stood up from that experience. And I deliberately did the ‘Possession’ and then the ‘transformation’ from me being a ‘Demon’, to her ‘Guide’. Because that was the only way. Because she was still in the relationship with that same guy... and I had to direct that, I had to direct her, her reality, so I thought, “Jack, you have to do it in a direct way.” Meaning, you are going to have to ‘speak’ and ‘form a connection’.

And so now, then I looked at ‘Forming a Connection’, and that’s it. I wanted to remain ‘detached as possible’. And so, then I became her Guide. (Chuckles) Changed from ‘Demon to Guide’.

Darryl: Did she respond to that at all?

Jack: What?

Darryl: Did she respond to you being a Guide? I mean, I don’t think she would have done that in the past, you know. Guide is like ‘fluffy, angelic’ –

Jack: Oh, from that perspective –

Darryl: Yeah, from being like, ‘an Angel’ –

Jack: No. I didn’t... I stood as a point of Stability that she was always looking for. There was a point she was always looking for, and that was ‘Stability’ in her life. And I became that point instead of - that was one point of a ‘mistake’ that I made - was me ‘becoming it’ instead of ‘me assisting and supporting her to establish that within herself, in her world’. But at that stage, I honestly didn’t know how to do that, because, what ‘stability’ exists in this world? How do I assist a Being to ‘show her’ what stability is, when from a certain perspective, I myself, did not know how to define it?

Darryl: Right. And she also had self-destructive tendencies where she began drinking.

Jack: Ah, no. The drinking was quite cool.

Darryl: Was it?

Jack: Because it gave me a more ‘comfortable access’ into her; the alcohol.

Darryl: Through the alcohol?

Jack: Yeah. But when she started ‘abusing it’... I mean, she had fun with alcohol. But then she started attaching alcohol to Emotional Stuff. And that’s where I got pissed off. And that’s where I said, “NOO!”

And I made her nauseous and throw-up the whole time. Made her sick –

Darryl: Do people do that? The reason why people drink is to form an Emotional Relationship with alcohol?

Jack: Yeah.

Darryl: Or replacing uh, Emotions with alcohol?

Jack: Yeah. See, what happens is you have these Emotions and Feelings inside yourself that need a ‘relationship’ towards something or someone. And what is being promoted in this world is ‘alcohol’, ‘sex’ -

Darryl: Drugs.

Jack: ‘Alcohol’, ‘Sex’, ‘Drugs’, ‘Money’, ‘Relationship’. Only those five points. Andrea did not have particularly ‘Relationships’. I cut that off. ‘Money’, she wasn’t worried about. I cut that off. ‘Drugs’, she wasn’t interested in. ‘Sex’, she didn’t like that, I cut that off, as well. Completely. Because ‘Sex’ was the one point that fuck Being’s Minds, fuck them into oblivion in their Minds –

Darryl: Oh, yeah.

JackL So I cut off the whole “liking sex” thing through the Mind. I cut off ‘all Mind Relationships’. So, alcohol was the only one that was open. I did not yet handle that one, so I had to take her ‘through’ that.

So, I let her go through that experience. I let her take ‘the alcohol experience’. The alcohol-formed-the- attachment-relationship-to-the-alcohol thing, so that all that Emotional stuff could come out, and to drink-herself-into-pity, and then I say – then I cut in and start saying, “No more.” And I forced her to stop, so she could cut that ‘relationship tie’.

So, I cut the ‘five major points’ the Mind Consciousness System would use to ‘form relationships with’, to ‘lock’ Beings into the Mind, into the World System, into the Unconscious, into Pre-Programmed Life Design.

Darryl: And I’ve seen that happen in my life.

Jack: It was all the “regulators,” so to speak, to keep Beings regulated within the System.

Darryl: Then she began experiencing ‘panic attacks’.

Jack: Yeah. The ‘panic attacks’ was the Mind Consciousness System within the Physical, because it didn’t get its ‘energy feed’. That was because of those Emotional and Feeling Pocket stuff that I made sure she didn’t access. Because the Mind wasn’t being fed that – it would go like, into – You know someone having an ‘asthma attack’, not getting breath? That would be like the experience of the Mind that didn’t get Energy. And that would be the panic attacks.

Darryl: Is that the nature of panic attacks? Because some –

Jack: Uh, no.

Darryl: That was just a specific case...

Jack: Yes. Panic attacks is when Beings are faced with situations that’s not Programmed into their Mind Consciousness System.

Darryl: That’s NOT programmed into their Mind Consciousness System?

Jack: Yeah. So that’s another point of a ‘glitch’ in the System, so to speak. Another ‘glitch’ in the Mind Design where events would take place where that was not Programmed into the Being’s Life, that was not Programmed through the Mind, within which the Beings exist. And in facing the situation, and there is no ‘Program’ within the Mind to tell them how to ‘handle this’, and then they go ... (Makes wheezing sound, as if someone was hyperventilating). That’s actually the Mind going into a state of ‘shock’, because it fucking doesn’t know how to handle the situation. Because there’s no Program in itself-

Darryl: It’s like a “zero” error.

Jack: Yeah.

Darryl: Wow.

Jack: And it goes into panic attack.

Darryl: So there’s no help for these people, basically?

Jack Oh, breath.

Darryl: Right. Breathe through it.

Jack: Yeah.

Darryl: “Does not compute.”

Jack: Breath is really one point that gets you through anything and everything. Is ‘Breath’. You Here as Breath. (Breathes in and out)

Darryl:: I don’t breathe for some reason. Or it’s like –

Jack: Yeah.(Chuckles) The Physical Breath is still in its ‘first stages’. There’s a point where the Breath is a Self-Movement. That’s the ‘Actual Breath’. It’s a ‘Real Self-Movement’.

Darryl: So we’re not even ‘breathing’ when we do breathe.

Jack: No.

Darryl: That’s pretty messed up. Well, we’re almost at the part of the story where Andrea is at a kinesiology conference or something, and she sees Bernard and Sunette speaking, and she’s blown away.

Jack: Yeah, at that stage, I knew I was getting into ‘the point’ where I finally had to get her at. I didn’t know with or where she might meet ‘this point’, or how this merging point would be, or anything like that.

Darryl: You didn’t know what the point was?

Jack: No, I didn’t. But what happened before that - about three months before that – ‘the point’ I saw there (pointing, indicating a distance far away) was ‘moving closer towards me’. It was like, right here (Indicating directly front of his chest). It wasn’t “there” anymore. It’s like, ‘here’. And we were surrounded by this ‘white circle’, and it was like, these ‘pink rays’ was around us. Like a ‘round circle with these pink rays’ ‘emanating’ from within our Self and Andrea.

And I knew, “Alright, so it’s got to be close.” Because it wasn’t yet ‘into us’, ‘infiltrating’. Understand, when I’m saying ‘light’ I’m not saying, ‘the White Light’ or ‘the Light from the Dimensions’. That was a ‘different light’ - it was an actual ‘Frequency, Sound’. Like, ‘Programmed Frequency System Sound’. This (white circle) was a kind of – it actually felt “moist.” It was like, a ‘Real Manifestation’.

Darryl: You’ve been through that before?

Jack: Not like this, no. Each ‘point’ that I was supposed to direct towards somewhere or certain directions, would be different. So that again, I do not create or form ‘an idea’ or ‘a system’ of how I do things. I only have ‘me in the moment’ to trust. Nothing else. But I knew that point was finally moving here.

And then she went into that Kinesiology meeting. And she kind of decided not to go. But, we went. And then what happened, is when she walked in, this white, moist encircling that was emanating from us with these pink strands – merged. Like, ‘sucked in’ – (Jack indicates the area around the solar plexus) and directed like, this ‘ray’ into Bernard.

And I saw... oh, my God. Okay.

Darryl: Finally!

Jack: It’s him. And I didn’t know exactly what to do at that stage. I just knew, “Okay. It’s him. Let me form now, the connection, physically, verbally. So, I got her talking about me. I said to her, “Go, go, go. Speak to him!” And she spoke. And from that point on, everything else opened up. And I had developed trust in her at that stage, so she heard me when I said go to him. That’s where you are supposed to go.

Darryl: Excellent. The Demon Dimension was cleaned up. Were you a part of that?

Jack: At that stage, no. I had been with Andrea at that stage, completely, absolutely just with her. Getting to that one point. No, that was Mykey and Kieran and Jesus and Sunette and them. They did that whole thing.

Darryl: Were you aware of what was happening, or no? You were still focused on –

Jack: No. I was one point absolutely –

Darryl: That’s fascinating. Were you surprised? When did you first discover?

Jack: That moment where I saw that ‘ray’ shot out from within us to Bernard. And I saw ‘everything’, ‘in a moment’, in regards to the Portal opening and then everything else that happened, from that moment how everything changed.

So it wasn’t – it was more of a “knowing.” I again came out of a “Process.” So it was like a Process within a Process that I walked and completely lost myself in it and came out of, so to speak. And saw the greater scope of everything. And then I saw the “why,” and everything opened-up in that moment.

Darryl: Excellent. Well, thank you for talking with us.

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This interview is featured in the 'History of Desteni' book compilation. If you enjoyed this interview and what to find out more about the beginnings of Process and Desteni, you will surely enjoy this book